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Committing to saying what is good

In Words of Truth, Ostad Elahi says:

“An intention that is rooted in good will itself bear fruit: a life lived with compassion, tenderheartedness, and kindness. […] A ‘good intention,’ then, is the first requisite, meaning that if we adopt that which is good in our words, in our disposition, and in our aims, that intention itself will become our own hallowed tree that bears delectable fruits in this world and the next.”

Ostad Elahi, Words of Truth, 415, draft of the forthcoming English translation.


Intention as our “hallowed tree”


For our intention to become our own “hallowed tree”, it needs to be nurtured and that begins with words. The first stages of what Bahram Elahi calls in vivo practice, i.e. fighting against the imperious self and concretely putting into practice human virtues in everyday life and in contact with others, have to do with our words. The extraordinary thing about words is, precisely, that they are ordinary. Every minute of our lives in the most ordinary circumstances, we can do an act of humanity by choosing to speak or, on the contrary, not to speak. It can be as simple as saying hello, provided we really mean it and bring to it a warm glance or cheerful smile, and a good measure of sincere affection and care… Our words are an immediate and permanent space for spiritual practice.

The words we utter and the intentions behind them are what lends our soul its color and perfume, and are indicative of its state. We are our words. Words can wound or heal. Words can humiliate or elevate. They brag or are modest, are violent or affectionate, they discourage or encourage, complain or express gratitude, lie or tell the truth. Words can backbite or protect, induce anxiety or reassure, be invasive or be discrete… Educators, parents and teachers know it better than anyone. When their anger boils up at a child’s insolence, a decision has to be made: one option is to seek momentary relief and allow anger to burst forth, at the risk of humiliating the child and jeopardizing its future ability to learn; the other is to contain this anger and to find the firm but fair words that will ring true to the child’s reason and dignity, and direct him or her toward a path that could bring about a change in perspective or behaviour.


Working on our words


I had started working on my words. The idea was not to focus on words related to a particular emotion, or a particular attitude or flaw, but on all words. Just as a microscope is used by scientists to examine a substance and work on it, my words were going to be an instrument for self-observation and self-analysis.

I set up the following routine: every evening I would assess my interactions with people that day and the words I uttered. Of course the idea was not to spend hours doing this, nor to review every single thing I had said. With a little concentration certain interactions – the most relevant ones – would immediately come to my mind. In addition, with practice, a sort of map of my main and most recurrent daily interactions started revealing itself to me: with my spouse, such and such colleague at work, such and such friend… Little by little, I began to improve my aptitude to retrospectively evaluate the quality or the “flavour” of my words. Were they at all bitter? If yes, an imperious impulse was hidden behind them: If I took the time to reflect, I was able to perceive it.

For example: I had given a rather curt reply to a question from my wife; my tone was polite but cold, devoid of any affection. Looking back at this exchange when reviewing my day, I immediately perceived its negative flavour, as well as the negative impact it had on both of us. Looking more closely, I saw that I was really annoyed when I spoke to my wife at that moment. Why was that? Why did I bear such a grudge against her, to the point of completely forgetting for a moment the love and affection we have for each other?

I couldn’t make anything of it at first, but I decided to pay close attention, over the next days and weeks, to those instances of negative words directed at my wife, and to keep quiet as soon as I would begin to feel that familiar annoyance that could bring me to talk in such an unpleasant and curt fashion, or alternately in such a chillingly polite way. I pursued this work for several weeks, while analyzing the words I spoke, as well as my conversations in general. Little by little, I came to identify the negative impulses that were at work in such moments. I realized I had feelings of misplaced superiority toward my wife that led me, in certain situations, to get offended and develop a certain passive-aggressiveness in return—typically when she appeared to hold an opinion different from mine, refused to yield, and it turned out she was correct. Being polite by nature, I would not use openly aggressive words, but I would adopt a cool distance that, I now understand, truly hurt my wife, who for that matter would sometimes tell me she didn’t like it when I acted so distant… In such moments I would become pure ego, entirely focused on my own wounded will to power, forgetting any and all positive feelings—love, affection, gratitude, admiration…

Beyond this particular example, analyzing the words I speak has enabled me to identity other “knots” in my relationships with others. In all these situations, imperious impulses were at work as well. In job meetings for example, I had a tendency to speak more than others and to not let them get a word in, insisting on imposing my point of view which I naturally assumed was the best. Thanks to my daily assessment, I was able to stand back and examine myself from the outside. What I saw was a very petty me, stopping other people from expressing themselves, eager to have the final say, incapable of listening to others or having them speak, etc. I can only imagine how annoying it must have been for the others! Here again, a feeling of unjustified superiority was manifest in my behaviour. This diagnosis made me aware that, because of my constant bossy and directive tone, some colleagues probably no longer even dared share their point of view with me. It was a classical situation where lack of listening could lead to the non-communication of important information about problems or dysfunctional situations in the workplace.

After several weeks of this diagnostic work on negative words, as well as many efforts to try to squash this tendency, a new area of work began to appear: that of good words!

Comments from the editorial board


This experience suggests ways to start practicing positive speaking:

  • Setting up a routine to regularly analyze our negative words. Only through such self-examination can we hope to identify, with the help of our reason, the manifestations of the imperious self in our negative words and the specific circumstances that trigger them (in vitro practice).

  • Taking action based on this analysis. Whenever we are again in a situation where our imperious self is most likely to manifest itself through the utterance of negative words, we should counter this impulse by remaining silent or by replacing negative words with positive ones (in vivo practice).

Feel free to share your experiences and analyses!


Creative Commons License This work is offered under a Creative Commons licence

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  1. Neeky Aug 06, 2019 8:37 am 1

    I cannot believe the timing of this article. It is just as if I wrote it. If this is not miracle, then what is?
    I can’t express my gratitude enough to the author.

  2. anonymous Aug 06, 2019 6:06 pm 2

    I was living with my husband for very long time, we got married around age 23- 24, and i just want to say my husband always complained about everything I did, I always tried to do better, and since I genetically was an anxious person, I was under a lot of pressure. I loved him so much, and I always tried to do the opposite to him, for example I always encouraged him and was kind to him and never compared him to any of my friends and families husbands. I always had his back.
    But he never stopped complaining, and his actions and his words made my anxiety worst and worst every day.
    Long story short I became sick, and was unable to work (as having a job), to this day I had sever depression, panic attacks, hospitalized several times so it’s been years that I’m still on medications, doing lots of therapies and so on.

    My point is words and behaviors can destroy someone’s life (in my case physically).

    When I seriously became ill, we got divorced.
    When I look back, I always think if he was kind to me, it helped me a lot with my anxiety, and I’m sure of that.

    1. Neeky Aug 13, 2019 10:55 pm 2.1

      I am so sorry to hear about your experience. Thank you for the reminder that our words have the power to break or heal people.

    2. shan Mar 13, 2020 5:35 pm 2.2

      I am so sorry to hear about your experience. You know I have had such an experience too. I have a husband like yours and in addition his family is very bad. I have to say I hate them but because of my children I could not divorce. But after some years, I began to think about the situation and understand that it was not my fault. I got depression and anxiety too, but I began to get help by reading books and listen to a psychologist, go to the gym and I used to pray very very much and got help from God to help me and protect me and my children. It made me much better and frankly I try to ignore my husband and his family. Although they had bad effects on me and my children, I did my best to protect myself and my children. This was before I became familiar with Ostad Elahi’s teachings. These teachings have made me strong and helped me do better. Thank god.

  3. Lilo Aug 07, 2019 11:43 am 3

    I understand the situation in this case here in the article. I also noticed that I trigger “bad vibes” when in a conversation I am disappointed when someone doesn’t agree with me in particular when my point of view is quite eccentric and hence tightly enmeshed with my ego. I have spotted insecurity about my idea or understanding because it is contrary to usual opinions, but also pride, feeling that I am so much smarter than others…I realize that the work I need to do is to be aware of feelings of superiority. Why should I share my thoughts? Is it to show off? To stand out as special? It definitely is not to be useful or kind to others. So this is clear to me.

    On the other hand, another situation I was in today involving words, is regarding a group chat I created with some women friends to support each other in our moments of emotional and mental confusion. One person misunderstood its purpose and that really annoyed me because she kept posting picture-sayings. I knew my words would be hurtful if I told her that was not what was expected but I did it anyway. And then I canceled the group-chat.
    I am wondering how to use words positively when pointing out “mistakes” others make.
    My priority was to “correct” the situation and get rid of the annoyance as fast as possible, but I sense there is a lesson here I have not grasped yet. (Too soon for self-analysis?)

    1. LA Aug 07, 2019 6:30 pm 3.1

      Very enlightening! Many thanks for the practice. I find it inspiring and will work on it wholeheartedly.

    2. kbld Sep 26, 2019 10:20 am 3.2

      I don’t think saying what is good means that nobody should ever get hurt about what you are saying. In your scenario, it is legitimate to address the misuse of a group chat if it causes a nuisance, for you and for others. The whole point is not to say nothing even though it would be useful, but to master yourself in how you do it (I commented here also on this). If you act the softest way possible and the person is still not happy even though she is basically wrong, I don’t think you should feel guilty about that.
      A rather long time ago, I had to use a social network account for professional reasons and I was in a 50-person group that corresponded to the working group I was in that year. At the very beginning of the year, someone (who was from a near-Est non-Muslim country that has been accused of global human rights violations against Muslims) posted an article about violence against women in Saudi Arabia with a sarcastic comment and someone else commented with a mockery of the Arab accent. There was one person in the group who was Muslim and assimilated to Arabs and I was appointed moderator of the social network group. I let the author of the post know as a comment that his post was inappropriate, because it had nothing to do with the purpose of the group and because of the comments made, and that I would remove it. He protested and soon perhaps five-ten people joined in the discussion, unanimously criticizing me. It created a huge friction between me and the majority of the group that lasted for the rest of the year, even though I had paid attention to stay very polite and calm in my writing. Some years later, the person who assimilated to Arabs told me he felt I wrote exactly the right thing, and I understood he indeed felt truly mocked by the original posts and comments (he was not targeted at all, but he was in the group and obviously was reading the posts) and that I was right to tell them it was wrong, even though it negatively impacted my relationship with them for the rest of the year, and even after because we stayed in the same professional milieu with some. It seemed it had exactly the impact I was intending, i.e. for this person to feel defended in his dignity, even though we never spoke directly about it until that discussion some years later.
      However, during the exchanges under that post, at some point, someone with a name I did not recognize commented with a video of a famous movie which is deeply pejorative about one Middle-Eastern country (in history), in a scene in which the emissary of this country is killed (pushed in a well), and the king killing him shouts, “This is [name of the city-state opposed to the other country]!”. It turns out that I have family ties with that country. I was truly shocked because it was the first and only time in my life I experienced this kind of attack. Me and then my wife thought maybe there was some kind of mistake, but we did not see any other explanation than a basically racist one. I reacted then strongly and harshly. The person who had posted the video answered by saying I probably was joking, and I thought he was playing me, etc. In the end, /he/ wrote to me a private message asking if I was joking, I understood then that he was not ill-intended, he told me who he was and I realized he was a guy who had been very friendly with me but whom I did not know yet the name of. He told me in private messages he had not seen the movie, had no idea of any family ties I had with the targeted country, and that the video was only designed to kindly mock the harshness of the other comments toward me while I stayed calm and moderate with them – so quite the contrary of what I understood. So we agreed to delete everything and he put another video, of Matrix. What was interesting is that he kindly told me, “you should have written to me a private message!” because indeed I was not sure if it was a deep misunderstanding. He understood that the video he chose had created a huge misunderstanding, but I still deeply regret the way I reacted at first. I know that he still likes me and he understood completely, but it still had a negative psychological effect on him, very small of course but I regret having been the source of unnecessary bitterness for him. I think the main reason for my inadequate reaction was rather practical: the use of this social network was new to me because I had been trying for a long time to avoid using it and the idea of private messages was not at all usual for me. It also taught me that sometimes, the 1%-probability explanation of a big mistake or huge coincidence is the right one, so we should rather be cautious.

  4. A. Aug 08, 2019 6:08 am 4

    Thank you for your experience – quite stunning indeed. I myself tend to always point out my kids’ flaws and not enough their qualities. I need to be careful at it could lead to complexes and lack of confidence.

  5. A. Aug 08, 2019 6:44 am 5

    Thank you for this detailed analysis. I also worked on improving my words. I began by working on avoiding any vulgar expressions. I am quite polite generally speaking, but I had noticed that I was more and more prone to letting myself being influenced by others. This resulted in the use of somewhat vulgar expressions or even straight out vulgar ones.

    Once this aspect had improved, I tried to work on using more affectionate words when interacting with others. I set myself a goal of working on this 3 times a day. Being quite cold with my fellow human beings, this allowed me to work on a major personality flaw.

    This article does a great job at encouraging to work negative words (other than vulgar ones) … Criticisms are also food for thought. No later than yesterday my wife told me that it was rare to hear me encourage our children and that the opposite was more true. Instead of encouraging them I always tend to identify what’s wrong. I am pessimistic. Criticisms and analysis of our words help us identify our weak points.

    Thank you for this article. It is very motivating.

    1. Geoff Sep 12, 2019 6:45 am 5.1

      I am really grateful for your comment. You were pointing out the importance of criticism in shaping new behaviors and altering flawed ones. I should sincerely say that I have not heard that many criticisms or complaints during the last 9 months. what you do that urges others to criticize you or speak out about your negative points?

      1. kbld Sep 14, 2019 7:46 pm 5.1.1

        It seems to me that we always have external feedback on how we are perceived by others. There is explicit constructive input that often only someone who is really close to you and with whom you share a worldview would give you (or rarely a stranger can say something even really brief but deep and very valuable). However, people express their feelings and opinion about you in many other ways than words. There are people obviously and openly badly perceived by everyone, but who are totally blind to what’s in front of them, perhaps because it is out of their perceptional field. At the same time, sometimes the world can be wrong and you can be alone or nearly alone in the right. There are famous historical (like this guy not doing the nazi salute in a crowd doing it, see the famous photo) or biblical examples of that (there wasn’t even 10 people on the side of Lot in the whole Sodom and Gomorra). I guess, however, that it is always good to know about what other people are communicating to you, verbally or not; that it is about living in the real world and interacting with others, and then you can actually choose how you react (ignoring being one possible reaction).

  6. H.L. Aug 08, 2019 5:51 pm 6

    This article is inspiring, warming and what I needed right now…the perseverance and especially the consistency the author demonstrates in reviewing his words every day, researching his own ‘self’ is inspiring. I would like to be more consistent in my practice of reviewing my words and in general my behaviour every day. I make a lot of excuses, especially lately, about how I am tired/busy and do not have time to review tonight. But I truly now see the value in everyday consistent practice, little by little which builds overtime to a wonderfully reflective practice and in turn affects our behaviour, words, and intentions positively. From today on, I want my practice to become more consistent, more reflective and most importantly like a researcher, and this article has inspired me to do so.

  7. Pegah Aug 09, 2019 3:50 am 7

    Some steps that have been really helping me with these situations are:

    1-Forcing myself not to say / do anything in that specific moment until I have time to delve within and think about it.
    2-What lesson is in that scenario as everything that happens in our lives is for a reason. Could be my anger, pride, impatience or so many other things.
    3-How would I want someone else to correct me if I was in the same situation? That person probably didn’t notice the intention of the group message and is not doing it on purpose. By putting myself in her shoes and having the right intention which is not from anger or annoyance and by asking for God’s help, maybe we can put our words together in a way that is not hurting other people.

    1. Roza Sep 18, 2019 5:20 am 7.1

      I really liked your first step. can you elaborate on the other two steps?

  8. James Aug 09, 2019 6:59 am 8

    I was inspired by this article and am going to add a new exercise to my OstadElahi-InPractice Lab: “every evening assess my interactions with people that day and the words I uttered at one occasion”.

    As I am a very perfectionist and goal-oriented person and need to prevent my imperious self to have leverage against me, I modified my exercise to do that at only one occasion.

    I would be quite happy if anybody could help extract more practical exercises out of this article.

    1. Yan Aug 10, 2019 1:09 am 8.1

      James, I really like your idea of trying to extract practical exercises from this article. I think we should set this as a tradition, do this with all articles we read here, that way we can practice in vivo and learn. Myself sometimes, I read, I think “wow”, and then I move on, forgetting what the purpose was in the first place.

      Having said that this is my practical exercise:

      To be aware and conscious of my tone, at least 3 times a day, and modify it accordingly.

      The issue is, most of the time, I’m not mindful, I say things, but I don’t mean things, I don’t even understand what I’m saying. Someone asks me how are you: I say “I’m good”, “I’m perfect”, “Thank you” but I don’t mean it. Sometimes my tone is so cold that it changes the mood of the person asking me. I’m like a robot. It’s all mechanical. Certain questions trigger certain answers automatically. If I’m not aware of my answers, how can I be aware of my tone!? If I’m not aware of my tone, how can I be aware of my intention which is instrumental in my process of perfection? How can I not hurt people?

      I read a really good book on this topic called “I and Thou”. The idea is, we sometimes, maybe unconsciously, see our fellows as objects, not as a human being. When “I” see you as an object, I’m in “I-It” state, on the contrary, when I see you as a human being, a real You, I’m in “I-You” state.

      Here is an excerpt from the book:

      A Prologue by translator Walter Kaufman:

      “God is present when I confront You. But if I look away from You, I ignore him. As long as I merely experience or use you, I deny God. But when I encounter You I encounter him.”

      Excerpt from the book, by the author, “Martin Buber”:

      “THE WORLD IS TWOFOLD for man in accordance with his twofold attitude. The attitude of man is twofold in accordance with the two basic words he can speak. The basic words are not single words but word pairs. One basic word is the word pair I-You. The other basic word is the word pair I-It; but this basic word is not changed when He or She takes the place of It. Thus the I of man is also twofold. For the I of the basic word I-You is different from that in the basic word I-It.”

      “Every You in the world is doomed by its nature to become a thing or at least to enter into thinghood again and again. In the language of objects: every thing in the world can—either before or after it becomes a thing—appear to some I as its You.”

      So, my goal should be first to see others as a “You” not as an “It”, then be mindful of my tone, and revise it according to His satisfaction. After all, you, just as me and everybody else, carry a particle of Him within you.

      1. James Aug 12, 2019 5:28 am 8.1.1

        I am really thankful Yan.
        I learned one great exercise: “To be aware and conscious of my tone, at least 3 times a day, and modify it accordingly.”

  9. Geeve Aug 10, 2019 4:42 am 9

    To set up a routine to regularly analyze negative words through self-examination to avoid the manifestation of the imperious self in any of the multiple facets of one’s life is a great idea. Negative words cause the specific and negative circumstances that trigger them or exacerbate them if they already exist. But where do we stop and when do we start the conversation again in order for the conversation to have any meaning? I can think about what I said and refine it to the max. Do I take it back and open the conversation again and optimally use the well thought of words to present my side?
    The main problem is that with the exception of a few scientific arguments conducted by professionals, the overwhelming majority of people don’t follow the rules of a conversation/argument. Now, I cannot imagine learning and growing without being a part of a pressing argument. But where do I find such refined partners in a discussion?

    Is this my imperious self that is trying to mask my shortcoming and place the blame on the circumstances? Or is it just a reality with which I will have to deal somehow? I’ll have to think about that.

    I used to leave the heated conversations when I clearly determined that the point of the conversation had turned from learning and conversing to just winning. I had no time for that. But I was told that people consider that to be rude. It was “wrong” of me to avoid a meaningless fight by not allowing the tempers to escalate through vacating from the discussion. I needed to participate even though I saw no point in that.
    It seems that the common accepted practice is to stay silent. No matter what the other party says, there will be a time that silence is the only option to avoid the rising of the tempers. Perhaps silence can be used as a pregnant pause to gather thoughts and redirect and maybe penetrate an even impenetrable mind. But an argument that is extended also bears the fruit of negativity by its inevitable vice. So, The only way out of this is to be prepared, or more prepared, and calmly dispense the thoughts and points with the hope of a receptive audience.

    1. Sena Aug 14, 2019 5:48 am 9.1

      I learned these things from what you said:
      – sometimes we need to just stay silent and not say anything, it is not a sign of weakness and can even be a noble character.
      – we should not be after winning a conversation, it may be a manifestation of our imperious self.

    2. Yan Aug 15, 2019 12:43 am 9.2

      Geeve, you made an interesting point. I have had similar experiences in negotiation/discussion with people around me, and I always wished I had more “refined partners” and “receptive audience” around me, as you would say. But later I noticed had I had all that I wished for, then what would I have done with my imperfections and vices? If everyone around me played the game by the rules and was understating and considerate, who would trigger my weaknesses, for which I came to this world; those weaknesses that are the root cause of all my misery and frustrations?

      So, whenever others become unreasonable or inconsiderate making me frustrated, and when my imperious self implies to me that the issue lies in others not me, I tell myself: “in fact, I’m the issue here. I’m impatient and my sound reason isn’t developed enough to enable me to handle others in all kind of situations. I have to learn how to handle the most unreasonable and inconsiderate person on this planet, and then I will have something to say! There is no art or virtue in handling those situations when others are reasonable and play by the rules. Even from just a purely material perspective, good negotiators are those who can handle all kinds of people.”

      I also ask myself: “How would Ostad Elahi have answered or reacted to that person in this situation?”. I know that this is just a beginning, but at least I have a goal and role model to follow.

      Having said that, I have learned that the main causes of my frustrations are: Impatience & Pride. There are two great articles posted on the website Impatience under Microscope and I’m Impatient but Working on it that helped me deal with my impatience a lot. I do read them at least a few times a year, and each time they help me more. Below are some of the highlights:

      “im-patient people are people who are incapable of bearing, of enduring. They cannot stand certain situations or cannot “suffer” certain people. In medicine, a “patient” is a person who must endure sickness and sometimes await death.”

      “Impatient people seek agency over others and the world at large; they forget that they are part of a whole and that they are themselves dependent on those very people who seem to be so incompetent in their eyes.”

      “The more one’s mind expands, the more patient and tolerant one becomes.” Ostad Elahi’s words also refer to one of the pillars of his teaching, which is the observance of others’ rights. These rights are not limited to the legal sphere but also include their right to exist, to manifest themselves, to be the way they are. Everything that will help us welcome the world and others as they are will help us become more patient and fight against intolerance.”

      “Becoming understanding is putting oneself in other people’s shoes and accepting imperfection”

      “In all cases, we have to learn to interpose a moment to think between our impulses and our actions…We can objectively analyse our exasperated reaction and become aware that our first reaction might have been purely egoistic and triggered by the fact that our routine and comfort have been disrupted.”

      “Let us listen to others without interrupting them. Let us try to understand what they are telling us and why they are telling it to us.”

      “Expanding our minds means increasing our ability to welcome and to learn more in fields that are new to us. Accepting imperfection in things and in people and then transforming this initial negative impression into true interest in others can result in increased empathy, consideration for others, and eventually love.”

      “Being tolerant toward ourselves requires first of all seeing ourselves as we are, with all our imperfections and failures. Accepting our helplessness is a good step toward self-knowledge; it helps us see our weak points so that we may tackle them. Looking at ourselves, and at our own impatience and intolerance in particular, will also help us become more tolerant toward others.”

      “What must be overcome is my own incapacity, rather than the imperfections of others. A good tool in this process is to work on self-effacement. For example, letting others express themselves before I start to speak, listening to their ideas and respecting them, keeping quiet.”

      “From a spiritual perspective, the opposite of impatience translates in a mature behaviour and in a willingness to peacefully wait for destiny or God to intervene. Accepting that we do not hold the reins of our destiny and trusting the unknown of what will be, while relying on a superior guiding force that manages our lives… Rather than storming head first, truly patient people will submit themselves.”

      “Patience enables us to take a step back from events and situations and to smile on the inside in the face of annoying circumstances. The result is greater clarity of thought and better behaviour; we become more serene and paradoxically have more energy.”

      1. Sam09 Sep 13, 2019 6:28 am 9.2.1

        Thank you Yan for your great analysis of weak points behind speaking in a bossy manner and not letting others express themselves.

        I summarized what you said as “when we do not let others speak more than us or when we speak in a bossy manner it is due to our own intolerance and narrow-mindedness.”

        Can we then say that:
        “speaking in a bossy tone and not letting others express themselves” is a manifestation of the imperious self, and “narrow-mindedness and intolerance” are the weak points working behind it?

        If so, can I start by this exercise:
        “Find one instance per day of narrow-mindedness that lead you to speak in a bossy manner with others”

        I appreciate if anyone can help me with this analysis and help me find more exercises with regards to that.

      2. A. Jan 30, 2022 8:44 am 9.2.2

        Dear Yan, your comment is an article unto itself. Thank you!

        I totally agree with what you said. No later than last night I went to a dinner where I met a lady who did a monologue about how great her son was and how her son looked/behaved like his mother.

        Interestingly, I had met this lady 10 years ago, and she had done the exact same thing and back then it had been even longer (like approximately 20-30 minutes non-stop). I tried not to be unnerved by her behavior, but at the same time, I could not help thinking about how self-centered she was. Her way of acting bothered me.

        Last night, even though my more noble side told me repeatedly that if she bothered me then I probably suffered from the same flaw(s), my imperious self was dominant and my negative thoughts prevailed. Now, instead, after reading your comment, I really think it was an excellent opportunity to gauge my limitations. If I did not suffer from the same flaws, then my thinking would have been much more lenient. Only when one suffers from a certain flaw, does someone else’s manifestation of the same flaw cause irritation.

    3. kbld Sep 25, 2019 10:59 am 9.3

      I understand your frustration. I personally hate wasting my time, when neither me nor my interlocutor would benefit from a discussion (the benefit can be intellectual or emotional, material or spiritual though). I guess the only thing to do is to choose your acquaintances. Personally, when I feel that it is the case with somebody, I just avoid seeing him or her again.
      I don’t think the idea to pick your acquaintances is bad, on the contrary. Finding positive people is hard indeed, I don’t really know what the answer to that is. Personally, I hardly have any long-lasting friends, it is often that at some point in their lives, I could be useful to them, or they would have a positive impact on me at some point of mine. I am not really settled in my life though, so perhaps that will change.
      Before, I was telling myself that we should learn from everything, so I was trying to do so. But I think there is a difference between trying to be useful to yourself or others when you are in displeasing discussions with others because you can’t avoid such discussions or because you already are in them, and not avoiding such situations even though it is possible to avoid them. In the first case (that can notably happen because your interlocutor is family or a professional partner), I guess Yan’s point of view is the right one.
      I guess one should try to give to others, and not only receive, and that one could try to perceive what is really at stake in discussions, in particular regarding what counts in the other person’s mind. We can help others in many ways through discussions. The goal should not be to have others adopt our worldview, but it could be to bend their opinion toward a more positive one.
      Regarding the issue of ending a discussion, I guess there are different ways to do it, or to kindly change the topic.

  10. Hello Aug 14, 2019 8:27 am 10

    What a practical and relatable article. It shows the importance of having a specific plan to reach very concrete findings.

    During my practice of positive saying I’ve realized how I give myself the right to speak negatively to colleagues who don’t speak to me in a way that I like. What I like is: giving me positive feedback, accepting my ideas, etc. It has been very difficult to convince myself not to speak negatively about these colleagues because in my mind they are intentionally making my job more difficult. My plan for now is to keep silent when I’m tempted to speak negatively and change the tone of my emails and the way I speak to those colleagues.

  11. Naghme Aug 18, 2019 5:23 am 11

    Amazing article!! Thank you for the suggestion to regularly analyze our negative words. Actually, we had a workplace training video this week for some issues and to harmonize our group. One content point was about how to identify sensitive topics at the workplace. We should take finances, race, romance, religion, politics, etc. off the table if we are speaking to people outside of a close-knit circle. These topics relate closely to people’s beliefs and values. Our “wild tongue” can trigger anger and cause colleagues to become extremely offended.
    If other people are talking about these things, then just better remain out of the conversation or if possible, steer the conversation in another, safer, direction.
    If we absolutely must comment, then remember to take a 10-second pause to think about what we are saying and the impact it might have. We need to know that some things said as a joke or sarcasm can be interpreted as discriminatory.

    1. paul Sep 10, 2019 5:52 am 11.1

      So, you think a 10 second break can help to analyze our words and stop saying negative words?

      1. Naghme Sep 14, 2019 8:12 am 11.1.1

        Starting with small steps (a few seconds) might help to end up bringing more awareness.

    2. kbld Sep 25, 2019 11:04 am 11.2

      I am dubious about the training session you describe.
      I would be really interested in knowing where and in what kind of workplace you are told such things, as a “training” to harmonize a group furthermore. I guess in some areas, like in cold places in Eurasia, it would be a natural way of life, or in dictatorial countries, it would be a survival skill, but otherwise it seems to me that it encourages human beings to be robots. The fact you have a training session asking you to behave in such a way means a lot about the trends of nowadays, regarding the cancel and “safe place” culture and regarding the economy and how the modern financial powers want to dehumanize us. I will also try to do some research online to find out more about such trainings; thanks for this!
      From a spiritual point of view, if I understand well, a goal of natural spirituality is to transform ourselves through in vivo practice in order to become “sweet as honey” and a source of goodness (see saying 342, Words of Truth). In classical spirituality, the idea was to live in retreat of society in order to have no temptation and no occasion to act in an evil way. What you describe looks more like the latter to me (refraining from acting to prevent acting ill), but without the dedication to an emotional relation to God (we make money instead of praying) and tainted with (Christian?) fatalism (our “wild tongue”, as if we are doomed to be mastered by it). The only person I would advise stopping speaking about anything would be somebody who pathologically sees ill and speaks ill about everything, and would need first a cure of silence and listening; but I doubt this is your case, reading you here on this website.

  12. Pouria Sep 14, 2019 7:36 am 12

    I extracted two exercises from this article:

    “retrospectively evaluate the quality or the “flavour” of my words in at least two occasions each day”

    also: “Try to figure out which negative impulses are at play when I speak ill words in at least two occasions each day”

  13. Davood H Sep 23, 2019 6:38 am 13

    It is really interesting to me as I tend to always point to the salient and even small qualities of my children and disregard their flaws to a large extent. We seem to be both on two extremes.

  14. kbld Sep 25, 2019 10:51 am 14

    In my experience, one of the most difficult aspects of trying to speak well is in situations where it is “good” to say something that will necessarily be unpleasant for somebody. Either because I am put in such situations, or because of how I look at things, it seems it often occurs to me that I have the opportunity to defend a general or particular cause, sometimes by defending my own rights. Throughout years and experience, I still bear the same opinion I formulated years ago, in a comment to a question that what asked on this website ( https://www.e-ostadelahi.com/eoe-en/an-ethical-dilemma-on-tripadvisor-what-do-you-think/#comment-274894 the question was a bit specific, but you can actually replicate it in many similar situations). I think what is most difficult and fair in such situations is to act and to say things, but to tell them well and in a benevolent manner.
    Recently, I hesitated to write a semi-official letter relating to a practice that I thought was problematic regarding sex equality at work, in a country and environment in which people are very keen on keeping things quiet and not changing the status quo. After months of reflecting on the specific situation, I concluded that I should write it, but, while doing so, I saw that the real difficulty was in the how – exactly like in the online review issue, I think. I had to prevent myself from adding small belittling remarks. Even more difficult is to distinguish between legitimate comments that are unpleasant to others, and petty remarks and egoistic feud, because the frontier is not easy to see. Sometimes also, you need to adopt the /posture/ of someone of is unimpressed etc., and you need to be careful to see whether you adopt such a posture to actually pursue a good and legitimate purpose or just out of pride.
    I saw that speech is really an arena in which the truth of the Saying 424 of Ostad Elahi in Words of Truth becomes obvious: “[Achieving self-mastery] is preferable [to performing good deeds], for without self-mastery, the value of one’s good deeds is squandered.” You can do lots of actual and well-intended efforts and destroy everything because at some point you submit yourself to your imperious self and let a few bad words squander everything you have done.
    Now, it can be good sometimes to assess yourself with regards to a specific point by seeing what your natural reaction is when life puts you in relation with someone who appears to have a problem with this point. I was quite reassured to see my natural reaction when having lunches with a colleague from another organism (A), whom I appreciate but who obviously like to speak ill of others and would like me to participate. The most striking time was the last one, when she was telling me about a former colleague of mine (B) whom I deem quite incompetent – an opinion I had not shared with A – and who has been very impolite and unfairly aggressive toward me – I had not shared that with A either. B got hired in A’s institution, apparently unfairly and because she knew certain people. A was telling me about how B showed her incompetence and she already had told me about how B had been impolite to her (A witnessed the whole unfair process but she had – unfairly – no deciding power and was put aside, originally partly because of sexism and now because of other things). The thing was I knew even more damning things about B, both about how she was quite ridiculously impolite to me (because I had gotten a job she had applied for) and about things she said that showed how dramatically incompetence she was for the job she finally got somewhere else. I think I paused for a split second and then I just changed topic instead of saying those things, and it wasn’t even difficult for me internally. Thinking back at this reassured me I guess, even though it is often in the long run that my reactions create some frustration, probably because of a lack of metacausal energy.
    When talking with my colleague A, as with other people, I do not disagree with her that some of the things she is speaking about are not normal. I think it is useful and “good” to acknowledge reality, as long as you keep it fair. I myself go through a lot of ordeals and it is important to be able to talk with someone to be sure that you are not out of touch with reality; and for that, you need somebody who is honest with you, it goes both ways. I noticed that, with others, I am always trying to see things through the lenses of the person who is being criticized, but not in an unreasonable manner. So I am not saying that nobody ever does anything wrong; I try to have the other person’s point of view understood, and, when something seems abnormal, I acknowledge that it is, but of course, without letting it turn into hate or any other negative feeling.
    Extremely often, if not always, the intellectual bias which makes negative feelings appear reasonable in people’s mind is confusion of subjects. When I talk to people, I constantly remind them that they are dealing with several facts together and that it causes distortion in their reasoning (not with these exact words). I realized that when, recently, someone, who had seen his whole neighborhood and friends negatively change over decades under the brand of one religion and ended up being misguided about all members of that religion, told me that it was very academic to separate issues as I do, but, then more or less added that it was not what his guts where telling him when he would see, for example, his daughter being treated in a certain way.
    It occurs to me that, on top of transforming our nature and natural feelings, social education for young people and experience about how to practically interact with others to have an effect also counts. Sometimes, it is just about practical knowledge, about how to do things.

  15. R Oct 06, 2019 6:08 pm 15

    I had never really paid attention to the impact of each word, until recently. Now I realize how I talk before I really think, more on the impulse side. If my intention is good then even cursing becomes sweet. Whenever I am not in nurturing and acceptable circumstances, I feel very uncomfortable, I even become aggressive in my mind, although I try to hide it. By analyzing my words, I get a deeper understanding of myself and thus feel closer to myself. Words come out but if I pay attention, it actually makes it easier to travel within. It is a colorful universe that I am discovering.

  16. N Oct 08, 2019 11:31 am 16

    Thank you so much for this article!
    It’s so empowering to see, that you are already working on spirituality, when you take care of your words in daily life.
    I’m a little pessimistic by nature, I think it comes from not being aware of what I have & not being grateful and taking everything for granted, but I’m working on it. For now, I do it by catching myself when a negative comment about something or someone is coming to my mind and telling myself “stop it, it’s not something that you should do & it’s not beneficial for you from a spiritual standpoint”
    After working on not to gossiping and speaking ill of others, I sometimes find it hard to talk to people. When I see people laughing and having fun I have a feeling of “you kind of want that too” but taking a closer look, I find out they are having so much fun at the cost of others. That’s definitely not what I want, and I’m so grateful that I am able to work and be aware of it. But then, I don’t know, maybe it’s from my imperious self, a thought of “so, if you don’t do that, you won’t have many things to talk about with people!” comes over me. That’s when I have to tell myself “so, it doesn’t matter, I won’t listen to this kind of thought from my imperious self”

    Does anyone know that feeling and how to handle it?
    Thanks again

    1. Lisa Dec 19, 2020 12:00 am 16.1

      I think we all know that feeling and I think you handle it very well. When the thought comes to you that you have not much to talk about to people, tell yourself that you are not alone. He is always with you and the imperious self will not be able to seduce you.

  17. Yan Oct 09, 2019 4:48 pm 17


    I’m glad you found the comment useful.

    I agree with you that “speaking in a bossy tone and not letting others express themselves” is a manifestation of the imperious self. If I was to pick two major weak-points, I would say “Pride” and “Impatience”. I assume those you mentioned “narrow-mindedness” and “intolerance” could fall under the umbrella of Pride and/or Impatience.

    Pride: I think I understand better than others and that I have the right to treat them brutally, without kindness and passion, as if, they were just cogs on the wheel or pure objects.

    Impatience: I don’t give other people a chance to express themselves to show me that maybe they are right. I have no patience for that! Needless to say, I could be objectively right, but the issue is how I approach them and how I feel about myself and my overall intention.

    I think “Pride” is one of the most vicious weaknesses, as it usually doesn’t demonstrate itself directly, as opposed to some other weaknesses such as anger, or stinginess which you can more easily detect. It is sometimes very counterintuitive: I can find pride in “shyness”, or even in “humility” (I’m humble because I want to show others how down-to-earth and likeable I am. I’m still better than them, but in a different way.)

    Having said that; I would pick the following practical exercise:
    “Find one instance per day where pride leads me to speak to or act with others in a bossy manner”.

    Putting this classification aside, I think what matters most is your intention. You decided to fight against one of your weaknesses, and however you name that weakness (pride / narrow-mindedness / intolerance) as long as you act against it (stop doing it) your soul absorbs the benefit. In my experience, while I’m fighting against a certain weakness, I learn new things and get to know different layers of that same weakness (or realize that there are complications with another weakness) and accordingly modify my practical exercise.

  18. unknown Nov 01, 2019 1:05 am 18

    I would appreciate advice if it’s possible.

    I meet once a week with 2 other teachers who teach the same subject as I do. I feel as if they are singling me out in a passive-aggressive manner. I tried addressing the senior member of the group and he sounded very apologetic and stated he had no idea that I was taking his comments in such a manner and that he would be more mindful. I figured the situation would improve.

    It seems to have intensified. If I don’t react to them with subtle insults, they seem to take my inaction as a weakness and only continue to attack and then deny any aggression. However, on one day, I decided to engage in the same “game” they were playing and seemed to have unsettle them. It didn’t really feel like a victory though, because it felt like I was becoming more snarky as a result of engaging in that sort of behavior as a means of self-defense, and that even though I initially thought I would do it purely for self-defense, it seems to have had a negative effect on my interactions with others (I found myself more likely to be passive-aggressive whenever I engaged in it for “self-defense”).

    So in this case, is this a situation where I should simply bear patiently, or would bearing their insults be an act of being naive? Are they my mirrors perhaps, and in bearing patiently the One would grant me growth until I no longer have to face this test? Or is this an opportunity for me to challenge myself by engaging them even though I would prefer not to? Perhaps I am supposed to set an example, and by bearing patiently they would eventually see my commitment to the principles I hold dear (like “saying what is good”)?

    I could really use some help, if anyone is willing to share their insights or their own experiences in similar situations. Thank you.

    1. kbld Nov 10, 2019 2:09 am 18.1

      It seems that you are not giving enough detail for us to be able to advise you. You set general principles you try to follow, but it is not possible for us to choose as a general rule one of these aspects.
      Perhaps try to find a colleague or someone with whom you can share details and who knows you and your context. You can use their tips to act appropriately from a pragmatic point of view, and use these tips and advice, to the extent they are compatible with having a good intention and adding that good intention to your behavior.
      Perhaps remember also that saying what is good supposes seeing what is good. Perhaps not, but perhaps your colleagues are in good faith, and the fact that your colleague said he would be more mindful can lead to suppose he is not ill-intended. I can’t say, but perhaps even the problem here is indeed the way you take their comments.

  19. Yan Nov 08, 2019 10:24 pm 19


    I had a similar experience with my former manager. She was a really good human being, but unable to control her temper which resulted in her behaving aggressively, sometimes to the extent that someone could interpret it as an assault (later I became aware that other team members had the same experience).

    At the time I tried to be patient and to be nice to her. A few months later, I realized that I should’ve defended my rights and told her how I felt. I told her that “I know that you are a kind person with good intentions and didn’t mean to hurt me but nevertheless when you lose your temper you cross the border and you are hurting me. I would like to kindly ask you to be conscious of your tone”. She apologized and acknowledged her fault and promised that she would work on herself. She became better for sometime, but she started again after a while. This continued until one day, I lost my temper, became so aggressive, telling her that I cannot tolerate her behaviour, and I will talk to higher level management and tell HR that she assaulted me. I started crying in front of her (I couldn’t believe I could do that! I always considered myself so political with a high level of control on my temper and emotions, and also giving career advice to other people on how they should control their emotions and how to behave professionally). This happened 2 days before my 35th birthday! Needless to say, I felt so bad, it ruined my birthday weekend.

    After the weekend, I decided not to report her to HR, however, I told our director that I wanted to be moved to another team. I said “I don’t want to discuss the details and under no circumstances do I want to be the cause of her demotion or anything like that but I just cannot tolerate her behaviour anymore. I was moved to another team. Later, I learnt that other people had similar complaints and eventually she was demoted to a non managment position due to high level of complaints.

    Lessons that I learnt and weaknesses that were targeted:

    1- Pride: I’m nothing. Even though, all my life, at least in my career, I have been able to control my temper and behave professionally and politically. I can easily break and cry like a small kid. I learnt at the time that I felt I had good temper and control over things and could behave professionally, but it was not me, it is Him controlling me, if I’m left on my own, this is the end result!

    2- Judging: I always wondered why some people are so emotionally weak and short-tempered and cannot handle their emotions professionally at the work place. I learnt: don’t judge others; if you were placed in the circumstances they are in you would act 10 times worst than they do now. (i.e. me crying like a kid. Not to say that crying is bad, but for the circumstances I was in, it was a bit too much).

    3- Moral Courage. I should’ve defended my rights way before that incident happened. The fact that other people also complained shows me that the right of others would have been involved and forgiveness in such cases, is not granted.

    4- Intention Matters: my intention for being patient was not led by my inner guide, on the contrary, it was led by my ego; I wanted to protect my professional corporate image and not be a “trouble maker” or a “complainer”.

    All of this was not to say you should do the same thing to defend you right. However, I mean to say that you should see what main character weaknesses you have and whether they are being tested in this scenario.

    It’s really important that you first determine whether your colleagues are objectively “insulting you” or if this is something that you “perceive” and “interpret” as an insult. This answer might lead to a totally different path of actions.

    For example, it happened that I thought someone had insulted me but it was because of my pessimism & pride that I interpreted his behaviour as an insult, however, in the above case, my manager objectively insulted me, there could be no other interpretation. I learnt this when one of my colleagues told me “oh, she sounds so bossy!”

    One way to determine the objectivity of your feeling is to talk to someone (close to you, who’s sound reason you trust), and explain your story in details as fairly as possible, ask him whether he interprets this as an insult. Before doing that, I would say try to check your intention and ask Him to help you handle this situation the way He wants it to be handled, to get the result He intended.

    Good luck!

    1. kbld Nov 12, 2019 2:27 pm 19.1

      In reply to Yan.
      I quite disagree with conclusion nr 3 you draw from your experience. It appears that the person was actually trying to do better and that she did for some time. If it was possible, you could have been more patient with her, talk to her again, and again, and again if necessary, until either she actually did better in the long run, or she would get fed up with your comments and refuse to work on her behavior.
      Of course, you have a right to peace of mind, and I don’t see a breach of her rights or that of others in your change of team. You also have to take care of your psyche, and if, in spite of your spiritual outlook on things and attention to the One, you really could not stand the repetition of her falling back into old bad habits, I guess you had to. However, if your psychological state allowed you to stand it, to me, the /better/ – as opposed to the “only not unethical” – course of action would have been to continue to work with her and give her a chance to be better.
      You say you did not report her to the HR, but you did to the director, in a way that puts you in a victim and positive position, as you note, and in the end you did not forgive.
      If someone infringes upon your rights, but acknowledges it and obviously makes real efforts to do better, that’s, in my view, the essential.
      Of course, this is the spiritual point of view. Other aspects, based on free market societies, merit for jobs in a competitive market, etc. can come into account depending on the circumstance.
      In your case, if you think you missed an opportunity to do real good, you could reach out to her and see how she is now.
      I don’t think the idea of not granting forgiveness if the rights of others are involved applies here. There is an anecdote in Words of Truth, where a soldier does not know Ostad Elahi is a judge and takes his reserved seat in a bus, and then Ostad refuses to “forgive” him. However, in this context, I don’t think forgiveness is a reference to an internal state, but to a legal matter: in Islamic-based Iranian Law, the victim of an offence can “forgive” and then the offender will not be punished. Ostad has always made clear that he never let an offence made toward him attain his heart. Also, if we are talking about whether or not to take action based on an offence, what Ostad is talking about appears to me as very different from your experience. If you go nowadays to a third-world country, or even in some areas of the West, you will see that corruption and abuse of power is very frequent and a lot of people are not educated enough to adopt behaviors that would seem basic to us. In that case, the soldier acted as if he regretted his actions, but, right after Ostad would have “forgiven” him, he would have thought even more that he can escape any situation and abuse his power. It could have been the opposite, but Ostad saw that in him, I think. If you compare with the anecdote in which Ostad insists that a merchant “forgive” a young man, whom he knows has behaved badly, so that he can apply to become an officer, it looks like a very similar situation, but I think that Ostad saw there that such “forgiveness” would have an effect on the young man.
      In our more modern lives, of course, being naïve and deceiving oneself in not reporting something because somebody took us for a fool and had no real intention of acting better, is ill-advised. But I am not sure that is what you are describing.

      1. unknown Nov 23, 2019 7:13 pm 19.1.1

        Thanks to both of you for taking the time and energy to provide your kind feedback, experience, and suggestions.

        I’ve thought a lot about this situation since I first wrote the request for assistance.

        I think I’ve tried to absorb the advice that I should take this situation from the perspective of “what is it inside me that has caused this situation to manifest for me?” rather than “what is wrong with those others that they should be causing this situation for me?”.

        It is very difficult to view the former and more beneficial perspective that leads to self-growth when one’s view is being shaped by negative emotional states and thoughts. I’ve tried using repeated self-suggestion when I’m in one of those pessimistic states to help find more clarity. For example, I have tried telling myself “A spiritual student gains nothing in happiness; a spiritual student progresses through hardship” (something Malak Jan Nemati said), or “He watches after us, the Beholder of Fate, our problems stem from the thoughts our minds create” (a poem Ostad quotes in Words of Truth) in order to first help moderate my emotions.

        Once the emotions are slowly brought down to a more reasonable level, I find that I gain a clearer view of understanding why the situation is occurring from the perspective of my own flaws. Even though, from one perspective, there is “bad behavior” occurring in those others, I’ve more clearly seen that I am also quite capable of being sarcastic myself when I feel I have been injured. So in a sense, I am no different from those others. I should be more dignified than that; I shouldn’t return a wrong for a wrong, and I should bear patiently while slowly gaining the emotional mastery that will allow me to react more appropriately without sacrificing the behaviors that would define me as a spiritual student.

        Thank you both. I really enjoy reading all of these different comments. It helps, sometimes, to realize we are not alone in our struggles.

      2. Yan Nov 24, 2019 8:11 pm 19.1.2


        I greatly appreciate you taking the time to analyze my experience. I reflected on your answer for a few days. To tell you the truth, I’m not still sure that what I did was right at the time. But I have the following reasons to believe that I should have done what I did, long before that incident happened:

        – Forgiveness: I believe, as you implied, forgiveness is an internal state which does not necessarily show in our external actions. I think, I forgave her in my heart for the following reasons: 1-From the first day, I told myself and I believed that “He is the Efficient! My abuser is a cog in the causality wheel. I have been harassed and humiliated to learn something, if not her someone else would have done it”, so I never saw her as the main cause to blame or to be mad at deep down in my heart. 2- I told myself “she is a good soul, struggling just like me, to be a better person. Just as I continuously fail in fighting with my imperious self, so does she.” 3- I was always kind to her. One of the reasons that made me believe my intention was good is that, after that incident happened, she randomly saw me here or there, multiple times, and always came to me and kindly started a conversation (usually after such incidents people try to keep their distance and just be polite at best, however, she acts as though she misses me a lot).

        – Defending my rights: I agree with you that my story does not exactly match those anecdotes (the soldier and the young man). On those examples, violation of rights was done in the past tense. Once and for all. However, in my case, my rights were being violated repeatedly (for almost 3 months), and if I hadn’t stopped the harm this could have continued for a foreseeable future. In other word, I took action to remove and stop the harm. Even, if I had super-powers, and tolerance to the maximum, and could have tolerated her insulting behavior, I doubt that I should have stayed with her after she proved a few times that she could not sustain her promises to control herself. Because in this case, I would have violated my psyche’s rights and my soul’s self-esteem and dignity.
        – In terms of talking to the director: this was the only practical way to change my team. In the organization where I work, changing teams is not possible unless there is a reasonable explanation for that request.
        – Indeed He is the true accountant and He is the One fully aware of our intentions. He is patient with all of us, and He would want us to be patient with each other. He loves my manager just as He loves me. He sees her struggles and her efforts to improve and He accounts for it. But for my part, I believe, I should take action to stop being harmed whenever I can. If for any reason, I cannot do so, then I can say I should be submitted.
        – I might one day realize that I should have acted better or differently, in fact, I most certainly will.

    2. kbld Dec 04, 2019 3:47 am 19.2

      @Yan (19.1.2)

      Thanks for your feedback :).

      I know nearly nothing of the situation so, of course, I cannot say. I was mainly commenting the following sentence which I thought contained a flawed reasoning: “The fact that other people also complained shows me that the right of others would have been involved and forgiveness in such cases, is not granted.” To me, the fact other people complained is a sign – not a proof – that your analysis of the situation is not out of touch with reality and perhaps even right, but it is irrelevant with regard to forgiveness, internal and external.

      You say that “forgiveness is an internal state which does not necessarily show in our external actions” – that is not really what I meant. Our actions are the materialization of who and what we are (I think). What I meant to say was that there is a difference between the internal state and the legal matter (in Ostad’s context) or the disciplinary one (in a strict sense but also a very broad one). I agree with your sentence in a strict sense (with “necessarily”), but, in general, I would say there is a link.

      I would have loved to have a more concrete knowledge of what you are referring to. Personally, I try to take great care of not uselessly bothering my psyche, you are talking of harassment and humiliation and if someone says sorry but does not make (sufficient) efforts, kindness can degenerate in weakness. At the same time, with my extremely little knowledge of the situation, I am not sure that was your situation. You were saying last time that she is a “good person”, that she acknowledged the problem, acted upon it with some success, and now you are even saying that she even basically likes you and was coming to talk to you. What I mean is that one can see in this new piece of information something called “mohhabat” in Persian, a word explained in the first footnote of the French edition of Worlds of Truth, broadly translated by “love” and explained as “disinterest friendship and affection for others”. Ostad insisted on the importance of giving affection (mohabbat) to others. Famous and beautiful couplets of Rumi deal with how it can create wonders: http://www.masnavi.net/1/50/eng/2/1529/

      I think I insist because, in my whole (short) life, I cannot remember an instance in the frequent occasions of conflict at work, often with superiors, in which the other person acknowledged a problem of behavior. Sometimes, friendship and affection does not result in a change of behavior, but if there is a possibility to share this, especially with someone with whom you have a problem, it is priceless. Moreover, I am so happy when I am put in a situation in which I can help and helping someone to become better is the best help you can give. And love appears as the key to “turn copper to gold”. In your situation, you have someone with, it seems, a terrible character flaw, and a lasting one, you let the situation go for months, and then, if I understand well, you tell her, she immediately accepts, promises to do better, and does better, even though she is your superior. Perhaps I am completely mistaken, but such a behavior seems very rare to me, at least if the situation is taking place in a Western country. I tend to think it would be a shame not to build on this.

      For example, recently, during a time I had a lot of urgent tasks, one person far less advanced in life than me, that other people in my situation would usually talk to in a very “vertical” way if they would even talk to her at all, wrote to me some casual greetings on a social network. I had a lot of things to do, but I took upon myself to be polite and answer some similar greetings back, but without entering into a discussion. That person answered with three emojis of a face crying out of laugh and added that my “I hope you are fine” was very short but that she was fine. It was extremely unpolite on her part, I decided not to answer anything, for her to understand that. After some time, I saw she still “liked” on social media a new professional accomplishment of mine. I saw that, even if she had been unpolite, she obviously had a problem in her life and she would have liked me to ask her about it, and, secondly, there was that kind of friendship from her part still. So I decided to wait some more time, and then to take the initiative to write an email asking for some news. It turned out, not surprisingly, one of her parents was in the hospital, and I reasonably took the time to ask more and add some kind and thoughtful words. She wrote to me after a while when the issue was over, showing gratitude. I think I had found the right equilibrium on that one.

      I could give other examples where I used windows of friendship and affection to make peace with people, and it is especially efficient where you have to get past a (perhaps legitimate) egoistic grudge and then you have to repress an animal feeling. At the same time, in most cases, such a window does not really appeared for me and I feel I have to stay on defending my rights etc. But, when it does and it is possible to use it, using it makes you and the world better. “Happy the peacemakers: they will be called children of God” (Matthew 5.9). What is true, though, is that, from my experience, it is very difficult to convey sincere good feelings in cultural contexts where exaggeration is the norm and then words lose their value, like, in my view, in English-speaking countries or Iran. Paradoxically, because unreal big friendliness is the norm in a country, I find it much more difficult to make true peace with people, and it is rather frustrating because everything you say or can say in a heated context is felt and understood as just casual hypocrisy. That being said, we tend to see in others what’s in us, therefore somebody with more sincere friendship will recognize it better in you if it is real and if it is a person such a thing can take place with (I am simplifying here).

      Also, because I presume the best in the person you are talking about, I think I also feel sympathy for her and I feel I would have liked some help and perseverance in kindness if I was in her shoes.

      One can also notice that you say yourself that you lost your temper, and perhaps you even made a long-term decision out of anger (but only you can know this). I wonder also what was her reaction when you burst out of anger (if you were not too blinded by anger to see that). In the end, /perhaps/, given her seemingly positive attitude, there was a way for you to spend a far better 35th birthday (if there was a possibility to make peace before). Besides, did you immediately talk to your director after your show of anger announcing her that you would not stand it, or did you at least sit with her to calmly talk to her about the situation, rationally explaining to her your decision? That would be a sign of out of what you made your decision. And beyond the greater good, the mere fact to be listened by her, to express kindly and calmly how you feel, if it is the kind of person that recognizes her bad behavior, could have led yourself to /feel/ better by being respected and listened to (I am talking about psyche’s health here).

      Whether you are a man or a woman can also have an impact on how to analyze the situation and to react well. And once again, I don’t know much about it. I don’t know you or your situation, so please do not feel judged or that you have to explain yourself. These things are merely food for thought and I just hope it can be useful in general!

      1. kbld Dec 15, 2019 6:16 pm 19.2.1

        Perhaps it is good to stress the fact that, as Rumi says in the linked couplets, true “mohabbat” is a kind of love that stems from knowledge. When somebody is hurting you, I think it is only possible when you have some kind of control of the situation.
        In particular, it is a very common pattern in domestic violence situations for the victim not to remove themselves from the abusive situation because the abuser is sincerely sorry and shows his sincere love to the victim, after each occurence, for example because of alcoholism, leading to vicious circles. All that is said about mohabbat etc. is not applicable to such situations. These should be dealt with very pragmatically and there certainly are plenty of materials online and help available to do so.

      2. Yan Jan 02, 2020 10:34 pm 19.2.2


        Thank you for your comment. I really appreciate it and I don’t feel being judged at all. As you said the whole purpose of these conversations is to get some food for thought and also to see some others’ perspectives. Having said that, I did my best to prevent my pride from overriding the lesson that I could potentially get from your comments, regardless of the context of it. Your social media story was a good sample of how to cultivate compassion and patience. I realized that I should be more patient and not let the bad behaviour of others, even if they are objectively wrong, impact me internally (to trigger anger, impatience, etc). This result is of course obtainable when my inner guide is in full control of my ego. Although there is a long way to go, but it’s the goal!

        P.s. to address your question about me going to our director. I did not do it immediately and out of impulse. First, I was advised by our union representative to report it directly to HR, as the union rep considered this as harassment and indicated that there were a lot of other complains about the same person. I told him that I was not gonna do it.
        At the time I had decided to go to my director and explain the whole story of her past behaviour but after the weekend, when I calmed down, I realized that I didn’t want do it because it would have been revenge on my part and it could have had a very negative impact on her future career. Hence, I decided to briefly explain as much as necessary without ruining her, just to get her to move me to another team.

        Your second comment about the vicious cycle (domestic violence etc) is very much inline with the context of my case.

    3. kbld Jan 08, 2020 7:11 pm 19.3

      @Yan (19.2.2)

      My question was not really if you acted out of impulse, but more if it was out of the same chain of emotions. Talking to a union representative is very good, but it depends on what type of person they are and this person would not usually take into account the spiritual aspect of things.
      If you know that you are somebody whose psychology will lead you to be deceived by people who are in front of you, and if you know in advance that the other person will take advantage of that, indeed, sitting down with the other person would not be advisable and would look more like the usual pattern in domestic violence.
      But then, let’s say you did not do too much, wouldn’t it have been better to do more? If it is the case that this person is beyond rescue through kindness (for that specific thing), that a bad will or a lack of will does not make her evolve and act better toward others, wouldn’t it have been useful to be part of the use of the stick? You said you did not want to report the thing because of two things: it would impact her career, and, mainly, because it would have been revenge. The first thing would have been the consequence of her actions. The second raises an interesting question. Indeed, reporting may have had the positive effect of perhaps protecting others from her behavior. However, you detected in your intention the desire of revenge. Should the detection of a bad intention prevent us from doing something that would benefit others? I don’t think so, even though, of course, the answer is not doing nothing about such an intention either.
      I have a similar experience. Somebody with power acted in a way that me, and someone else who also has a spiritual outlook on things, deemed to be deeply abnormal. I was leaving the job anyway, but what was done might have had light repercussion on work in the future. On the one hand, it is not normal that somebody who abuses his or her power gets away with it, in a context where it means he feels entitled to act the same way in the future. At the same time, no matter how hard I work on that, my material self would enjoy a material harm that would be caused to that person as a result of his behavior towards me. I think this should not prevent me from acting in a manner that I think would be positive for others. Therefore I pushed the matter even though many would have let it go.
      A difference is that, in my case, the repercussion for the person, if any, would be very little. I just want the person to be bothered and perhaps afraid so that he acts with more restraint in the future. I would be much more afraid to have somebody fired or something like that. But, in your case, what you did does not seem to have protected others. And, everything has its place: reports are needed for a manager to act, and the appropriate course of action is in his or her hands. Regarding the vengeance feeling, I think one has to work in vitro by autosuggestion and in vivo by acting with measure, but not by not acting at all. To me, the spiritual prudence here is to act well first, and beyond that to work on intent. Not acting because it would lead to a material satisfaction a perfect man perhaps would not have could be linked to pride because it would mean refusing to see that, precisely, I am not perfect.
      It is like the discussion on Tripadvisor (my comment: https://www.e-ostadelahi.com/eoe-en/an-ethical-dilemma-on-tripadvisor-what-do-you-think/#comment-274894): some users rightfully noted that it was the rules of the game. It is perhaps personal, but even though my principles come first, procedures and guidelines are the start of my reasoning. We cannot know everything, and following the rules designed by the relevant persons in a company or a society (the law) is often the most prudent way to go. To some extent (to the extent to which we could reasonably know it is wrong), the responsibility of following them bears on the shoulders of those whose job it was to design those rules. (Many of the issues on the Tripadvisor topic are very general I think.) It is normal practice to report something serious enough, so, I am not saying you should jump at denouncing others, but I am saying, on the decision to say something or not, it counts. Like on the Tripadvisor matter (with possible hard consequences too), the spiritual work is on the how I think. Speaking only to the extent to which is it useful (and to those it is) is good. Perhaps there were ways to be proportionate, like delegating to somebody neutral, e.g. saying to the union person that he was allowed to mention it to HR if he felt it was useful and that you would say the truth if asked.
      There are trends of reports or denunciations in society. These days, the trend is related to sex equality, to a point, one might think, of exaggeration and of justification of primal collective and unreasonable punishment, out of something that is good if proportionate. It is not because society is giving you a blank check on reports or denunciation on one issue, that other issues should not be considered seriously too. If something is serious enough to need to be taken care of, then reports are needed for people to be able to do something. But everything has to be done with care, measure, and if possible “mohabbat”. As if this person was a loved one, you would have acted anyway, but in a very special way.
      I think a problem is when anger or desire of revenge impairs your judgement, and then leads you to justify an act that does not bring any good, or whose good is far smaller that the evil created. But that’s something different. Time and external feedback are very good tools here.
      Or, your middle ground was perhaps the sign that you knew, or at least wondered, deep inside that or if you could have been more enduring in helping her change. I mean that perhaps you could have calmly and with good intent told her that she would really have to work on her behavior, and otherwise you would have to report to HR and ask to change teams, or something else.
      In short, it seems that between two perhaps legitimate courses of actions, depending on the situation, you chose to plead the fifth (not to choose or answer, because you felt it would incriminate yourself). You did nothing wrong in doing so, especially if you are not a naturally combative person, but I wonder if it would not have been more valuable to choose, risk making a mistake, but anyway learn from it and perhaps develop such a personality; all of that if the overall pressure would have been bearable for you.

  20. B Dec 18, 2019 4:34 pm 20

    I got this book a couple of years ago “How to Win Friends & Influence People” by Dale Carnegie (https://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People-ebook/dp/B07K5BW2HK/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1576679144&sr=8-1)

    I think the book is very interesting. I just wanted to share it so maybe someone on this site could perhaps write a small article about it like some other articles that are on this website.

  21. kbld May 24, 2020 5:27 am 21

    Last year, I watched a certain number of videos of the YouTube channel Charisma on Command, and even though I don’t have any education in human interaction (because the founder has been – unfairly in my opinion – criticized for this!), to the extent of what I learned from interacting with others in life, his tips are practical, based on experience, very good, well intended and positive, and I would really recommend this channel for these kinds of content. It is also striking that the founder is not trying to take down anybody (he himself applies his tip of assuming good faith first), and he even tries, each time he shows interactional mistakes a celebrity does, to show also good reactions they have had at other times. I am not saying I would copy everything, but there are really a lot of good pieces of advice.
    I share this advice after reading some comments on this website in both languages that revolve around how to interact with others in some situations, but these things are in great part technical skills, not in itself spiritual ones. It is important, I think, to understand what these tips are and what they are not. They are practical tools one can use with many different goals, they are not a way of life in themselves. I noticed the founder is himself several times wary of how these tips can be used and he advises to mean what is done (since positive actions can be useful to get things, and you can mean them or not). It is normal, though, that he is not talking that much about intent because his goal is not at all to open a spiritual path or something like that. He is even advertising for his school on the usefulness of these kinds of tips to be more successful in material life, it is one other not-negative-in-itself goal, but the key is to understand that these tools can be used for all sorts of goals, negative included. They can be tools for spiritual practice, they are not spirituality in themselves. It is very important I think because there is a real risk to shift from original intent and to think you are doing spirituality when in reality you are pursuing material goals.
    I also remarked that most of the advised behaviors actually come naturally with some theoretical and practical orientations given in Ostad Elahi’s teachings. However, 1 with good intent, perhaps it can be good for people who have real problems in their interactions with others to work on these things. 2 Everyone needs some practical advice and some tips are purely psychological and useful for pretty much everybody. Interacting with others is like anything you learn, there are some ways of doing it you just need to be told if you don’t notice it yourself, and it is difficult to notice everything, especially before it is too late. 3 Anyway, it is from behavior that we change ourselves, so, to a reasonable extent, these tools can be used toward that goal. It is even true at a psychological level, for instance, it is in this video I think that the founder remarks that forcing your body to behave in a relaxed way will make you actually more relaxed in heated situations. https://youtu.be/nS9W-wlJHPA. 4 Other people use these things, so it is good to be wary of them, I guess. There are, for example, videos on how to spot a pathological liar. In general, if we adopt a spiritual view on life, we generally want to be true to people, especially when the subject is explicitly spirituality.
    I tried to look again at examples of good videos I watched at the time, in part in relation with questions in comments I read on this website. I think these other ones for example: https://youtu.be/KBCcDrG2NjM https://youtu.be/K9Na6CmJwn4 https://youtu.be/F08qtHtrXI8 https://youtu.be/lykvHGNo9yE https://youtu.be/EgTlQgabv2o .

    1. kbld Jun 26, 2020 2:48 pm 21.1

      I have been referring to that other video several times recently, it is about how to deal with people who appear to be passive-aggressive, and the progressivity in the response and its content is, I think, quite good advice in many context, with a practical example, so perhaps it can be useful to put that video forward too: https://youtu.be/LyBIT0Q7fOc
      The subject is quite similar to the video linked with an address finishing with mJwn4 above.

    2. kbld Oct 04, 2020 11:19 pm 21.2

      I wrote “pathological liar”, but it is a mistake, the video I was thinking about deals with what is called narcissists by the author (lie is central though): https://youtu.be/Hg4ws1QPeNE They are some phrases you hear so much that you begin to use them abusively; you could be more careful, but it is easier to just repeat that phrase that comes to mind; it is not very good and I caught myself doing that here.

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